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Old 08-05-2004, 07:09 PM
Dawn Dawn is offline
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I would like to take a moment and address, once again, the perception that we treat some people more fairly than others. It is true that some groups get more perks than other groups. And, hence, the people in those groups have access to more GM time and energy. However, anyone who puts in the time and effort has equal access to this based on the same rules as everyone else. What do I mean by this? We interact with players at their request based on some rules that we follow fairly stringently (Note that we also run events, hold impromptu events, or just play NPCs for the RP at our own discretion. This just addresses the time we run an NPC at a player’s request.). They are as follows:

1. Org credits are payed for events, NPC appearance, etc. (see ?founding a group, perks, etc.)
2. Influence expenditure by a Patrician for an NPC appearance (see ?influence)
3. Personal events (see ?personal event)
4. Wedding (?wedding - note this is a specialized personal event)
5. Winning Rper of the month and picking having elements of your history included in a future event.
6. Around the time of Patrician jobs we have Senators interact with Patricians for job selection.
7. If something unusual happens in the game world we will wake up an NPC to deal with it at our discretion on a case by case basis time permitting (for instance, if someone was attacked in front of a storekeeper after they were falling asleep and a description of the attacker was required, we have been known to wake up the storekeeper to give a description).

Now, if someone takes the time to form a group that contributes to the gameworld (by contribute I mean does it provide a group that characters can join, feel a part of, give purpose to, and does it fill a need within the gameworld) we will recognize it if we have the resources to do so. And, if a group is recognized, members of the group can use their credits to speak with an NPC (if it makes sense - your ic story has to support it).
<@Logan> I spent a minute looking at my own code by accident.
<@Logan> I was thinking "What the hell is this guy doing?"

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Old 08-06-2004, 09:09 PM
Catuluscaesar Catuluscaesar is offline
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There are no clear ways of gathering information ICly, and the GMs don't put out any sort of "majority decision" statement (taking the US Supreme Ct. for an example). As such, you have a very few characters IG who are "in the know" and a large majority who have no idea how to even gather the information that they may want. This was the same as trying to find the thief trainer, or how to join the guild. Sure, it would be a challenge, and would improve gameplay, but it might take 3-4 weeks. In 3-4 weeks, IG happenings are obsolete at worst, irrelevent at best.

The lack of easy access to information and the unwillingness to openly explain situations once they are over (ie. months later) results in much of the gameworld feeling like the GMs do play favoritism. Most players have no idea what would be even the proper channel to spend RPs or guild credits to help out a character or a member of an organization, or what RP opportunities are available should a player wish to contact the GMs with help. It's not self-evident, and there is a sense of the GMs "speaking from the mountain". That intimidates many players.

The GMs, despite their efforts, simply aren't -perceived- as available to everyone. This perception may be incorrect, but it still is. As moderaters of this game, and individuals representing those providing a service to customers, the burden of perception lies upon those making the decisions. Again, I believe you when you say that you don't play favorites. But the thought processes that lead to individual decisions are never explained, understood by very, very few IG, and are very difficult to learn IG. The structures of information-sharing simply do not exist in any reliable fashion. No very many, if any, for instance, can go up to Senator Traevant, Seredian Allende, or Oratha Thelius and ask, "What the hell were you thinking?" But, again, spreading the information OOCly violates the rights of the characters involved to RP and disperse information as they see fit.

No doubt this comes off of the situation involving Kered, perhaps as the final straw that broke the camel's back (and I don't mean a certain GM! ), but I find myself puzzled at this decision myself. To my reckoning, I don't know of a single thing that anyone could have said to avoid what the inevitable conclusion would have been otherwise.

The important part of that is that I can't -see- anything. Thus, if I were a cynical type, I would argue that OOC relations involving a player impacted the consequences to a character. I don't know how the GMs could convey the information that would satisfy the skeptical or disbelieving, nor what that information even would be. It's a sticky problem. But it does look shady to those outside of the decision-making and inputing processes. While we can understand your point of view, you must understand ours. We'll trust what we see with our eyes and ears (proverbially speaking), regardless of what we're told. Simply stating that there are processes, even listing them, will not convince a skeptic that favoritism doesn't exist. We need to be able to see how those listed processes are applied in order to -understand- why what happened happened.

I hope that this sounds fair. You have a point of view, that is valid given what you know. But we also have a very valid point of view, based upon the information that we all know.
Those who are afraid of the dark have never seen what the light can do.
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Old 08-06-2004, 09:51 PM
HouseSolace HouseSolace is offline
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I am going only to say this once, since I've been civil and now am offically tired of it, I went through all the proper IG channels, I used the patrican system like everyone complains I ignore and when I do, it's favortism, Kered gave up what was asked of him and used the assistance he was offered along time ago when it was offered. I"m sorry you don't agree with it, I apologize if you are offended by it, but please I am no more favorite then you are.
Stable of Solace.
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:15 PM
Mast3rMind Mast3rMind is offline
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I don't think anything that happened regarding Kered's situation was what you could call favoritism. What I think it was, was simply what people thought was the destruction of what could have been a fantastic storyline due to what could be seen as an improper manner of resolution by the GMs. Especially when a lot of people weren't informed of the end result, while informed of at least some of the goings-on that lead up to it ICly.

In my opinion, it was just a matter of poor communication on both sides, but nothing apocalyptically earth-shattering. Curiously enough, the aftermath might hold another interesting storyline, though not involving Kered.

That aside, on the issue of favoritism, I'd like to say a couple of things- it seems like people are all too happy to throw out the 'F' word, so to speak, when they see others managing to get results and or communication from the GMs while they can't. I should mention that being respectful of the GMs, and not being the trendy 'rebel sans cause' by being disrespectful or simply unthinkingly callous, is the way it should be. Why would anyone care to respond or work with you because you decided to be a whining, petulant brat? Furthermore, why does being even the slightest bit respectful seem to be anathema to so many people? Basically, treat the GMs as you'd want to be treated and you'll be able to speak with them on a semi-casual or at least more friendly note. Being smug, whiny, or whatever else will most likely get you ignored. And there's nobody to blame but yourself. The GMS aren't -required- to listen to you. If they don't, they're not showing favoritism to anyone but themselves, since they choose not to deal with you.

But yeah, I'm done.
Go here. Y'know you want to.

"I'm the hand up Mona Lisa's skirt. I'm a surprise, Kevin. They never see me comin'." - Al Pacino, The Devil's Advocate

It's scientific fact that intelligence is directly proportional to the number of idiots you piss off.
Originally posted by Japes
To quote Bruce, "Ego sum rex Romanus, et super gramattica."
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:29 AM
Catuluscaesar Catuluscaesar is offline
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That's my point, though. I said that I'm sure that all of the channels were followed. But the problem is that what truly happens and what people believe to have happened are not always the same. I said repeatedly that the problem is one of perception, not procedure.
Those who are afraid of the dark have never seen what the light can do.
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:32 AM
Mackrels Mackrels is offline
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I tried not to post too much on the subject of Kered's imprisionment while it was ongoing.

I didn't want whatever I might have said out here to effect what was going on in game.

I guess I could have shot Kered's player a line telling him the true reasons for his arrest when I did it. As a player I feel bad that I inconviencence another player, but is it possible something like that would have contaminated the experience?

Would there have been the same outcry? The same rumormill?
The same desperation? Maybe, maybe not.

Anyway, I'm not really free to tell everyone everything that happened in this, since there was a lot more going on that just Laphus Nicatian, Evanix and Kered. Every other PC that got involved had an influence on the final outcome and there were plenty of them.

And finally, if something had happened IG that hadn't seemed right, or smacked of favoritism, or just plain didn't make sense, I'm certainly not above comming out and complaining in the forums like everyone else.
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Old 08-07-2004, 09:48 AM
Modius Modius is offline
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First off, I'd like to say that this last event was fun. Kudos to all of those who were involved or actually did get involved. The whole player base was affected by this "player run" event from the get go to the dried cement and in many more ways than one. I had fun, even though I didn't have much of a choice to get involved, although I still did. Those who were involved should be awarded by either rolepoints or bonus points. But, of course, I'm not expecting either because it probably won't happen, although it should. With this said, there are a few things I'd like to point out.

Originally posted by HouseSolace
I am going only to say this once, since I've been civil and now am offically tired of it, I went through all the proper IG channels, I used the patrican system like everyone complains I ignore and when I do, it's favortism, Kered gave up what was asked of him and used the assistance he was offered along time ago when it was offered. I"m sorry you don't agree with it, I apologize if you are offended by it, but please I am no more favorite then you are.
Just blame it one me, Kered. I'll take the whole blame. *shrugs* I was there from the beginning to the end of this whole entire "player run" event. For granted, no I wasn't one of the main characters that was involved but I had more say in this whole thing than the roleplayer of the month.

Which brings me to my next point.

Originally posted by Mackrels Anyway, I'm not really free to tell everyone everything that happened in this, since there was a lot more going on that just Laphus Nicatian, Evanix and Kered. Every other PC that got involved had an influence on the final outcome and there were plenty of them.
Don't. Honestly, don't tell anyone what you know. There were plenty of people involved in this event. If you weren't involved, it's just like a Gm event, you snooze you lose. What really gripes me is the fact that the roleplayer of the month didn't even get involved in this event. He didn't even have one word of say in this whole entire thing, but yet he gets a custom item for not even knowing what went on in the biggest event of the month. That is pretty funny, and it peeves me knowing I was a better roleplayer this month than the one who was chosen.

Kered should have gotten roleplayer of the month, if anyone. He was one of the main characters in one of the biggest events of the month. I'd say it was one of the biggest events of the year and those who roleplayed in the event got nothing, jack didly squat. Kered got a month of sitting in jail, woopdeedoo. Laphus Nication got mixed up into something he probably didn't want to get mixed up into in the first place. Evanix, didn't want nor like the out come of the event at all.

Like I said. Kered, just blame it on me.
Originally posted by Bactrian
Only took six and a half years for us to find it, but I did.
I thought this worth noting.

Originally posted by Bactrian
Who said I was taking it away?

Originally posted by Japes
By the way, I was the one who first used "nerf" to describe a modification to a game element. In that case, it was in regards to toning down wooden gladii which previously did as much damage as bronze or iron ones. Using that now-loaded term is becoming a cliche in TEC forums.
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Old 08-07-2004, 10:16 AM
Brassy Brassy is offline
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I have watched the threads pop up and disappear and pop up again on this topic, and I've refrained from comment until now. I want to address "perceptions". There is a saying that "The squeaky wheel gets the oil." and it's held up as pretty much a standard of operating procedure around these forums. It doesn't make it right. Check any topic with "Flames" in the icon that deal with any IC situation brought out into the forums. I've made the mistake of drawing a conclusion based solely on what was brought out in the forums before, only to discover I was in gross error -because I relied on the loudest and not the most accurate information.

I look at the vast number of changes in this game -- the commentary that is offered by the GM's on what they would like to do, or what they would like constructive opinions on. Then I see one of them moved to make a thread like this one and I have to step back and ask myself, "Are they aware of the problem of misinformation in and surrounding this game?"

You bet they are! It's the number one reason they take @reports of abuses and rather than banning right there and then, they make a note of it and begin observing the "Accused" on their own. Are they aware there is always at least two sides to any situation? You bet. They are keenly aware of it, because they get crucified by this "perceptive playerbase" on partial information -or spiteful misinformation- on a daily basis.

Do you really think they aren't aware of personal agendas and preferences in this vocal portion of the playerbase? I'm certain they are aware of more than we realize. People are quite free with their hates and accusations and conjectures, given in plain sight, in the Welcome Area. The rumor mill that surrounds this game does more damage to "good storyline", causing people to get "up in arms" and show their butts ingame by bringing their ooc opinions into it with "Marrach ale" and other purely asanine and tantrum oriented crap.

Given that they do understand the emotional upheavals, the personal hates, the agendas, factions, divisions and feuds that this playerbase indulges in quite freely,I find myself grateful that they are only willing to post what is factual and freely accessible by anyone if they'd just take the time to access the help files and really think about what options were and are available to one and all. I appreciate the very fine point that they are unwilling to give out more than what anyone with the will, wit, gaming spirit and acumen are willing to invest to find. Dawn pointed everyone to the appropriate files and avenues made available. If the playerbase is too lazy to follow up on it, it's not the fault of the GM staff.

Perceptions, with this playerbase, is just a polite, ultra- thin veneer for "how can I manipulate this to my advantage and get my way." Kered just wanted to know what was going on with his character. He didn't want to influence it with pressure from the outside, he wanted to know what he had a right to know. As a player, I find that reasonable. Everyone jumping in with conjecture based on personal percecptions and hates did nothing towards answering his question, and everything towards getting their manipulative and spiteful statements out. It was disgusting...and standard operating procedure.

I looked at who the players were in this latest scenario. Mackrels has never, in all my dealings with him in and out of game, been ooc about how he plays the roles he has conjured for himself within the frame work of this game. Kered has been a consistant character. It seemed to me that these two players were the ones that mattered, and neither wanted a flame fest nor had an axe to grind. How the playerbase got to this "favoritism" witch hunt is not hard to see. It's the laziest and easiest conclusion to reach until Dawn did the only thing a GM can and should do. Point those easily led sheep to information that's always been there, so they can at least put those fertile minds towards conjecture that might come closer to the truth.

I hope GM's never give up fact for perception. I rely on their impartiality to keep the minority from taking over.
Originally Posted by Max Powers View Post
There are a lot of options out there outside of screwing with rank bonus to accomplish balance. I am more worried about people getting bored of the game because there are zero roleplay goals to be had which leaves mechanical goals, and those are effectively being capped.
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Old 08-07-2004, 10:18 AM
Takius Takius is offline
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being a roleplayer of the month doesnt' mean you have to be involved and be leader and be in charge etc. It just means you play your character and roleplay well....
Optio Takius Proteus of Legio I Invex, Cohort I Rearing Stallion, Eagle First Century, Lion Squad (retired).
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:24 PM
Koeii Koeii is offline
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Originally posted by Takius
being a roleplayer of the month doesnt' mean you have to be involved and be leader and be in charge etc. It just means you play your character and roleplay well....
Or it might just mean you consistently can make events. There are many people you never see on the top-ten who play their characters well and role-play well, they just happen to not attend events too.

- Hoi
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Old 08-08-2004, 06:12 AM
Taskyavik Taskyavik is offline
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You have a system.
Judgment calls.

Too bad your aren't recalling everything, everywhere, at all times.
Accumulative counts.

Ither way, someone has too.
"In real life I'm bone dry. On the stage I'm a mango, and when I play... I'm a dying to be a dripping mango. " Quote from the talent I named my daughter after, Tori Amos.
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:28 AM
Redric Redric is offline
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*shrugs* If I really cared about being 'RP'er of the month' I'd attend the one event that it seems to be graded on. But I play this game for the RP of it, and thus, don't care about rolepoints. Maybe I'm just strange that way.

O, as for the favoritism, I don't really see that in the game world. Can't be too much favoritism, I do recall a lot of the vets complaining about a certain change. In fact, I think almost all of the players have been upset over some change. Would make things equal in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by A Dwarf Engineer
Crossbows were good and fine, but nowadays, a gun is better - and if a gun is good, then an automated self-aiming gyro-mounted gun turret with a cyclic grenade feeder and napalm cannister is even better yet!
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:04 AM
Dink Dink is offline
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I've been out of the game for about 6 months or so now, but I still scan the forums from time to time just for entertainment. I nearly had a seizure when I happened on this thread though. My apologies for sounding off on any issue here, since I'm no longer involved with the game, but I can't help myself on this one...

No favoritism? Right.

There are many more instances like this, with other gm's and other characters. It's just one, but it goes a long way to show that the claim of no favoritism is completely bogus.


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Old 08-11-2004, 11:52 AM
Mordheim Mordheim is offline
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It'd be one thing if the emotes were actually meant to affect the gameworld. Like, emoting punching someone in the face, and breaking their nose. So what if someone does power emoting like that, and yes, they have been doing it for years, and they've been here for years. If you emoted something that you considered "important to your characters rp" no one should complain about it unless it's something totally absurd.

Something like "Pulls down his pants and farts, you see a faint sparkle in the air before you begin to gag on the methane."

Yeah, that's extreme, but that's what you are playing it out to be.

My point , who cares. If it seriously impairs your ability to play a game then make your case, and maybe something will happen. But if it's something that just annoys you, as this clearly does, suck it up and deal with it.

Lastly, and the most beaten dead horse there is, it's a freakin game, get a life, get over it.


"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may
have to back up his acts with his life."

Robert A. Heinlein

"I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams."

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Old 08-11-2004, 03:52 PM
Bactrian Bactrian is offline
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I believe the GMs have addressed this specific incident, ad nauseum, in a separate and distinct thread.

It had nothing to do with favoritism and everything to do with semantic differences. Using sensual metaphors to express a facial expression, while perhaps borderline to some sensibilities, is not something that requires GM attention at all, especially immediate GM attention in the form of a proclaim.

I don't recall any specific exchange with a GM, but it's possible that it was phrased indelicately. In any event, that's neither an example of power emoting nor favoritism.

If anyone has private questions or concerns about the way a member of the staff treats a player, please, contact immediately and discuss it with the game's admin. We take those concerns very seriously, though admittedly less seriously when they originate from a combative ex-player
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